Is it still alive or dead?

Discussion in 'Red Baron Project Discussion' started by DJ Optik, Nov 10, 2014.

  1. Gary Trotman

    Gary Trotman Moderator

    No , not an employee of MAD O . To old to be a Game Programmer , I was a Plumber ! Among about 15 other trades , lol
  2. Old Gregg

    Old Gregg New Member

    This is like waiting for a Beatles reunion. I'm out.
  3. FlightLeaderBud

    FlightLeaderBud New Member

    I hope they've still been working on the game all this time(otherwise we'll be waiting longer for it), why not start up another kickstarter? if there having problems getting funding.
  4. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    Bud - no telling what more has been done, but its likely the artwork shown is where they stopped. Everyone's "conservative" aka, scaredycat about risk (no offense intended!) and of spending their own money at risk. Kickstarter was a kick in the ballz, and would make anyone think very hard before going there again without some privately funded new momentum, which seems what they have worked on, according to Gary.

    From the posts I have seen about KS, I am not sure the Otters really understood why they ran into a mountain just after takeoff. Most everyone else does. MO has the skills and can acquire anything else they need, IMHO.

    I personally would pay $15 for a non-Glide based, modernized RB3D singleplayer with all new rich terrain, ground objects and planes, and of course, a non-ubered FM/DM. And I think Kickstarter would work like a dream for the relatively small amount of final capital that would require to finish the existing upgrade. I don't know who can make that decision, except that I know its not me.
  5. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    I am saying that building a world class flight sim takes well over a year, and flying a hot new RB3D SP would be sweet until the fresh enchiladas came...kind of like chile con queso with chips
  6. FlightLeaderBud

    FlightLeaderBud New Member

    Yeah I see your point, and agree, i would like a updated RB3d.
  7. Spartan

    Spartan Member

    I think that is a great idea. They own RB3D again, so how much work would it take to produce just an updated version of the old game. They could even incorporate the free work done by the old community for skins and terrain if they wanted to do a quicky. I'd still pay. SP would be nice, but I'd like to see them bring back the old MMP system also. Since development fees would be very low for such a game, the income produced could do even better than a kickstarter.
  8. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    I posted about the upgrade quite a ways back over in about the upgrade done two years ago. Pretty much any kind of game fix, AI, FM polishing, even Mission logic can all be easily done. Using the current version of MSVisualStudio, virtually all the old junk was replaced with modern stuff, and graphics are OpenGL. Even without doing anything more, which would be pretty silly, much larger (high def density in the game) terrain tiles could be repainted for hi-res terrain. Even though we stopped short of a 3D upgrade, texturing of terrain and objects (example: take the best planes, etc. in their original low poly count; perhaps explore how much the game's 3D would allow in case those planes could be upgraded on polys some) and texture everything in hi-def which is now available. It would probably look awesome, very modern and the tile lines would/should be long gone, etc.

    I get emails regularly asking when that is going to happen. My answer is always the same: I don't know anything, but it seems pretty obvious on face value that it isn't likely to happen.

    Its been two years right now since the game could have been re-released and further improvcd, including with community involvement in beta testing and in making new graphics. One of the greatest mysteries and IMHO, tragedies in the WWI flight sim world. Feel free to check with someone who knows and let the rest of us know.

    Spartan likes this.
  9. Old Gregg

    Old Gregg New Member

    What a mystery indeed. Unfortunately, the relatively long window of time when it was practical to save RB3D (either by improving it or by building an entirely new game) was marked by sabotage, incompetence, apathy, greed, corporate inertia, and/or internal struggles. There was the “loss” of the original code, courtesy of some anonymous dog-in-the-manger. There was the apathy or outright blocking of any attempt to improve or modify the game at various times by the different owners of the intellectual property, even when volunteers would have done all the work and they would have simply reaped the profits. There were years of potential development time wasted by corporate indifference and sniping within the fan community. The delays have gone on so long that the game has turned into a trivia footnote in digital gaming history.

    There were many heroic and selfless members of the fan community who fought a long, uphill battle in a valiant effort to keep the game alive, to which I send a sincere “Salute!”. However, IMO too often the efforts focused on eye candy and modified flight models, when the problems with keeping the MMP aspect of the game relevant were more basic: making the game work with new hardware such as dual core machines and new operating systems; chronic bugs (such as flamers); and the need for better security to prevent hacking (yes, it was more widespread than anyone cares to admit). These problems were ignored until the game couldn’t be played on modern machines. Die hards have to keep outdated PCs running just so they can continue to play the game.

    If MO did intend to build a NEW game, it now appears to have either given up entirely or it is years from the market. Meanwhile, the original fan base is quite literally dying of old age. Proceeding with Swamp’s proposal would at least start a revival and keep things going while a new game is being funded or built. It could even stimulate interest in the game with the old fan base, enhancing and facilitating efforts to obtain funding for development of an entirely new version of the game. Why doesn’t that happen? No good reason. Same sh*t, different day.
    Spartan likes this.
  10. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    You sound like you were on the front lines. Best forensics on RB3D code history is that it "disappeared" (went "poof" according to one Dynamix programmer) somewhere around or just before 2002.

    The version located and acquired so many years ago through mad-dogged detective work was a complete enough SP to compile, but despite having so many references to MMP "stuff", MMP never compiled. It was a nearly impossible thing that the SP code still existed, incorrectly marked ("Dogfight") on a dusty shelf. Actually, I was told that that was the in-house name for the project.

    Now it will run on Win7 and if it doesn't already (I never tried), could run on Win8.
  11. Gary Trotman

    Gary Trotman Moderator

    Damon is still looking for investors so that he can complete the development of RB4 .
    Stalled but not Dead !
    He still wants to finish building it and bring it back , just a matter of time and money .
    He said to me that with the right investor the next Kickstarter would have a more modest goal.

    So keep your fingers crossed .
    Those who are about to fly , I salute you .
  12. Old Gregg

    Old Gregg New Member

  13. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    The Pool of Tears
    `Curiouser and curiouser!' cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English); `now I'm opening out like the largest telescope that ever was! Good-bye, feet!' (for when she looked down at her feet, they seemed to be almost out of sight, they were getting so far off). `Oh, my poor little feet, I wonder who will put on your shoes and stockings for you now, dears? I'm sure I shan't be able! I shall be a great deal too far off to trouble myself about you: you must manage the best way you can; --but I must be kind to them,' thought Alice, `or perhaps they won't walk the way I want to go! Let me see: I'll give them a new pair of boots every Christmas.'
    [​IMG] Alice stretched tall

    And she went on planning to herself how she would manage it. `They must go by the carrier,' she thought; `and how funny it'll seem, sending presents to one's own feet! And how odd the directions will look!


    Oh dear, what nonsense I'm talking!'
  14. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    Gary, you are deleting posts? Is this the standard of excellent, and openness, and respect for people who love Red Baron? The questions asked were very fair and important to those of us who want to play the best RedBaron available at this time, and to be actively involved in supporting anything which gets the Baron active again. Red Baron3D deserves tremendous respect and should be treated with love.

    Why did you ignore the questions posted above, and why would you delete thoughtful, positive posts??

  15. Gary Trotman

    Gary Trotman Moderator

    Which posts and when ?
    I have not deleted a post for at least 6 months .
  16. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    Apologies. I assumed you were the only one controlling the forum posts. You don't see any posts missing after the Alice in Wonderful post, including yours? Probably a glitch.

    I will reconsitute the text of my post and re-post later, OK? I really do want to hear what you think about the issues.

  17. CamelJock

    CamelJock New Member

    Once a serverop, always a serverop.... I'm still faithfully running the redux server for Swamp. We have spent good money to build a new server, and are ready to host any RB3D matches. I've kept our meta server up for years now, and run a few RB3D servers for the public. RB3D is not quite dead yet, and there are many who would like to see it resurrected. We have an infrastructure in place ready to deal with that when the time comes.
  18. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    Hi Gary

    In a post before the one below, I had asked if you were familiar with RB3D, since you had not addressed the questions about it in previous posts by several people. I honestly wasn't sure. The following was your response:

    Red Baron
    Swampfox, Gary Trotman replied to your personal conversation at Red Baron.

    [​IMG] Here in front of me are 3 jewel cases .
    Red Baron with A-10 Tank killer by Sierra Originals, Red Baron Two by Sierra/Dynamix, Red Baron 3-D by Dynamix.
    Yes , i know what Red Baron 3D was .
    I am almost 55 and can not count the hundreds of hours of fun i had with these games .
    Any other Questions , YOUNGSTER . lol
    View this Conversation View all Your Conversations


    After your post, I asked what you personally thought about the value of releasing the upgraded RB3D discussed above and in previous posts in going back a few years.

    All three posts got deleted. Sometimes that happens unintentionally, which may have happened here.


  19. Swampfox

    Swampfox New Member

    S! CJ

    Actually, the go-fast internet backbone connection person facilitated the Haswell-based server. Keep up the good work.

  20. Old Gregg

    Old Gregg New Member

    Are you sure Swamp? I didn't see any recent posts that aren't still here.

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